I’ve previously asked if it’s easier to fall in love with a slut. Sexual intimacy can bring about incredibly strong bonds between people, even when you’re not expecting or wanting it to. It results in being conducive to love, though in and of itself is not sufficient to form love. Furthermore, it’s possible to fall in love without being sexually intimate, which is what I recommend. That way you actually get to know the other person before things become clouded by sex. Yes, it’s a difficult path to navigate in between there and the friends zone, but it’s completely possible.
Now that’s something that occurs between the two of you. Today, I’m interested in examining the attributes of the woman that appeals to me.
I’ve been in full-blown love twice before and started to fall in love one other time. I have been thinking about the similarities between these women and the difference between other women who were perfect on paper but I just couldn’t fall in love with. Then I came across this quote from Ayn Rand, which hit home:
A man’s sexual choice is the result and the sum of his fundamental convictions…. He will always be attracted to the woman who reflects his deepest vision of himself, the woman whose surrender permits him to experience a sense of self-esteem. The man who is proudly certain of his own value, will want the highest type of woman he can find, the woman he admires, the strongest, the hardest to conquer–because only the possession of a heroine will give him the sense of an achievement.
I completely agree with this. All three girls I loved were utterly amazing. They all had a total zest for life. They were all highly motivated, passionate about what they loved, and lived life to the full. I never had a boring moment with them. Rather, every moment with them was exhilarating.
This is where I disagree with a lot of Manosphere commentators, who claim that many self-developmental things women undertake don’t actually increase their attractiveness. This includes Deti, who I have huge respect for. Deti commented on an earlier post:
Things which women believe increases their attractiveness but don’t:
1. her salary.
2. her educational level.
3. her job title or job duties.
4. the places she’s traveled.
5. her intelligence or IQ.
6. her sarcasm or quick-wittedness. What women see as confidence or assertiveness is in fact bitchiness.
7. her conversational abilities. Hlds his interest but isn’t attractive.
8. the things she owns, her house/apartment, or the car she drives.
9. her fabulous lifestyle, social life or number of friends.
I agree that 1, 6 and 8 don’t make a difference. However, when I’m with a girl who I can engage with in fascinating conversations, who is living life to the full, who has plans for the future, who has travelled, studied and worked, I find that incredibly attractive. All three of the women I fell in love with had those things in common. (3 and 9 don’t matter so much in and of themselves, but they reflect the direction the girl is going).
It’s essential for a woman to be able to engage on numerous levels with me to fall in love with them. We don’t have to agree on lots of things, but I need to like who they are, which is hugely influenced by what they’re doing with their life.
Looking for the ‘love’ button, ‘like’ doesnt really cut it. Individuals who are passionate about what they do, become so much more attractive. It’s a huge, huge plus. And like you, I dont think a woman has to be a wallflower as opposed to feisty and bitchy. There’s a middle road.
Thank you IWM.
but she’s absolutely hilarious. She’s never rude or bitchy, she is just really fun and funny and we get on well.
You’re spot on about there being a middle road. I’m attracted to this girl at the moment who’s not my usual type (e.g. supermodel
I know, it’s remarkable what a great personality does. Meeting someone who, at first sight, is just a face in the crowd, but when you get to know him (in my case a ‘him’
) and you experience his attitude, charming but ‘sly’, he shifts from just someone to ‘Hey… Who -is- he? There’s something about him…’
I’m inclined to agree with you that many things on that list do in fact make a difference. A strong sense of femininity trumps all, but it’s no use if it’s attached to a snivelling halfwit. I have to be fully intellectually engaged by a girl to be fully attracted to her.
One factor which I personally believe is a requisite for being in love – a slightly romanticised notion of your partner which doesn’t quite match reality. How strong the notion is, and how closely your partner matches it, determines how long the love will last.
“A strong sense of femininity trumps all”,
Yeah SO critical.
“I have to be fully intellectually engaged by a girl to be fully attracted to her.”
Amen brother.
Minor quibbles with your take on Deti’s list. #’s 5 and 7 (IQ and conversational ability) do increase a woman’s appeal to me. #9 (great lifestyle, lots of friends, etc.) is a two-edged sword; too little or two much are both negatives. But some value here is a minor plus. Sense of humor, as long as its without snark, etc, is also a plus. All of the other items on the list are either irrelevant or potentially negative, wrt female attractiveness.
I disagree with Rand. A man’s sexual choice has nothing to do with a woman’s morals (up to a point perhaps.. most don’t want to get involved with crazies). A man’s wife choice is often about his morals/convictions.
It’s helpful if we don’t give women false hopes, by mixing up men’s sexual choices and their relationship choices.
What Rand is describing is a hypergamous man.
It’s not just his morals though, Rand says his “fundamental convictions”. That encompasses far more than morals. For example. having an absolute love of life and living it to the full is not about morals, it’s partly inbuilt and partly cultivated but doesn’t have to do with morality as such.
Sexual choices / relationship choices… personally I don’t have a difference when I’m in love and serious about a girl. She is the ultimate for the both of me. Only thing is that there has sometimes been something major I find out about the girl holding me back from pursuing a relationship super long term…
Hmm, I think I can see what you mean about convictions.
However, i still think men have a sexual choice, and a relationship choice. The latter includes the former, but not the other way around. Don’t you ever meet women you wouldn’t mind having a sexual relationship with, but not a romantic one?
And the issue I have with Rand’s quote is that she is saying men have a hard-on for a woman’s accomplishments and how much they admire her. She is also saying they want the woman who is hardest to conquer. I don’t think that men want to have sex with a woman who is hard to conquer. Not if it’s just about sex. If it’s about relationships, it might have truth in it. But even there, I’m not sure. Some men say they want a woman who’s hard to get for everyone else, and easy for them
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“He will always be attracted to the woman who reflects his deepest vision of himself, the woman whose surrender permits him to experience a sense of self-esteem.”
That I agree with…which is why you see many betas with 30 year old + carousel riders. Low value attracts low value.
Part of the reason I’ve only fallen in love twice myself is because I value myself highly and look for a woman that can approach that value.
“That I agree with…which is why you see many betas with 30 year old + carousel riders. Low value attracts low value.”
Excellent perspective.
Wow. You, Ayn Rand, and I live in totally different universes. This does not at all describe the falling in love I’ve experienced.
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4. the places she’s traveled.
and what exactly do you think she was doing for the 20 months travelling the world?????
staying celebate……
Followed by the usual meme contrived social convention “you cant judge me i was travelling, having fun, getting it out of my system etc”
All one has to do is check FB for the amount of dudes contacting her for an approximate N-count after rio,bali, oz, india, vegas, mexico,
Like attracts like. Intelligent people don’t want to spend their lives with a dolt. I’d say number 6 applies too. My husband says he loves my quips, thinks I’m clever and looks forward to my texts when he is away. Life without humor is….tedious.
Wow, so glad I came across this post. I seriously LOVE that particular passage from Atlas Shrugged. I love her whole view on sex and attraction. I do believe we are attracted to people that either are reflective of self or self-perception.
Guess thats why I love you so much
I think the comment Deti gave should make women feel relaxed. A lot of the things women do to impress men that don’t actually impress men don’t come as naturally to them, and it stresses them out.