1. Roosh advises women who are in their early 20′s:
Right now you are in your physical prime. All humans start to degrade after 25, but for women it’s more dramatic since us guys mostly care about looks. We are more shallow than you can possibly imagine. Therefore if you want to get married, you should start thinking about it when you’re 24. It takes a couple years to find a guy and then a couple years more to make sure he’s the one you want to spend the rest of your life with.
It’s okay if you don’t want to get married, but if you do, don’t wait until you’re 30. By then it will be too late because you’ll have to compete with younger girls who are still in their prime, and it won’t matter how smart you are if you’re not as pretty as them. After 30 you’ll be forced to settle with a man you wouldn’t even have considered just a couple years prior. And that’s if you’re lucky.
I am getting older while all the girls are getting younger. Men date 22 year olds no matter how old they are, while women tend to date within their own age group or older. I am now in the same dating pool as my cousin. I was eight years old when she was born. I watched her get her diaper changed and now we are fighting for the same guys. Everyday, I look older, they look younger…
I cannot stop my biological clock. I cannot make my eggs stay young. I do not have time to wait for mister right. Every year I pack on more emotional baggage. While getting older does mean knowing more about life and the world etc., maybe I liked being a little naïve. Because bad things DO happen! To good people. As you age you gain wisdom but you also gain awareness that shit happens, it happens to you and you become jaded (you can’t tell me any failed relationships haven’t affected the way you approach love and relationships now).
George: I love this girl’s attitude, honesty and everything she brings to the table.
3. Rollo writes about a key mindset change in women post-wall:
There will come a point when a woman’s conditions will make her more dependent on a man’s intrinsic qualities. His empathy, love, loyalty and compassion makes a world of difference once she’s past the Wall. As her ability to remain a sexual competitor diminishes, her dependency on her husband’s emotional and security provisioning takes precedence. This may even be a genuine appreciation for a woman, but it’s important to understand that this new appreciation is the result of her opportunistic understanding of love. At some point she will need to love these intrinsic qualities.
George: But even then, many women don’t… especially when they divorce their husband and look further afield, only to find their SMV has bottomed out.
4. A reader from Australia sent in this post about a woman who’s hit 30 and finally woken up about how her crueltyto men hasn’t paid off:
OPRAH Winfrey called them light bulb moments – those times in life when you come to a great realisation. My latest light bulb moment came courtesy of Santa Claus – and my mother. While running through the family gift list with Mum last week, she uttered what can only be described as the most embarrassing question I’ve ever been asked: “Did you ask Santa for a boyfriend for Christmas?” After recovering from the shock, I had to admit she had a point…
OK, so I’ve made some mistakes in the dating scene. Actually, I’m downright crap at dating.
I’m opinionated, outspoken and at times emotionally cruel to men – all very bad qualities for husband hunting apparently – but worst of all I’ve been chickenshit for too long and failed to go after the guys that I’ve actually fancied.
I’ve always sat back and waited for the dude to approach me – then judged him on his appearance, choice of drink and pick-up line.
George: The ‘apparently’ indicates she still hasn’t come to grips with exactly what she was doing wrong. It’s good to see though that her pride has finally shattered and brought her low. At least she’s honest enough to admit that she was being overly harsh in judging. I bet there was a lot of good, decent men over the years who were interested in her over the years but who she smashed away.
I was going to make a post to add upon this (and may still) but the watered down version is this. Commitment only matters at the height of your power. This is why i keep saying commitment is important only after hitting the wall is really just commitment under duress. You’re out of power, yet still feel entitled to what you could have had at the height of it.
Women have all the power in their youth and sexuality. Men have all the power in actual power, provisioning, resource gathering and security, both physical and financial.
Example.
Everyone wants a Ferrari. They all want the one on the showroom floor. That one has the most value and at the height of its power. Second best is the unpainted, disassembled Ferrari in the Italian factory. It’s not put together or drivable, but all the parts are there to make it go zoom zoom given the effort to build it. Last place goes to the Ferrari with the dents, scratches, blown valves, worn out tires and destroyed leather interior. It’s a Ferrari, but nobody wants it. It’s scrap heap time.
Women do not like half made men or men expired. They don’t like ‘boyz’ or ‘scrubs’ because they’re not a)accomplished b)independent c)wealthy d)beefy manly man e)got game.
This gives men their most power in thier late 20′s/ 30′s / early 40′s but can vary depending on the mans status/wealth/game level.
Women have all of their power when they’re young and fertile. Their early teens to early 20′s is the height of their power. Mid to late 20′s is the disassembled stage, and usually after 35, the ferrari is a wreck.
Yet we as a society are constantly told that the men should be investing in the wrecks, while the girls are always deserving of the showroom model.
The ideal matchup is showroom model for showroom model, which is why the common wisdom is for men to marry 5-7 even 10 years younger than them to match out the power differential. That way, *committing* on both parties holds equal value. Saying you value commitment only after you’ve sped up and down the race track and wrapped yourself around telephone pole means you never valued commitment. You fear not being able to get it since you squandered away your power.
It is at this point the GoodGirls of OKC will bitch and moan about how they are entitled to Ferraris.
M, you truly have made some of the most insightful and helpful full of advice comments on both my posts and others’. However, before I argue or disagree about the following statement:
“Saying you value commitment only after you’ve sped up and down the race track and wrapped yourself around telephone pole means you never valued commitment. You fear not being able to get it since you squandered away your power.”
I ask, what does “value” mean to you?
Generally, I don’t believe in using absolutes like “never”. It inherently holds you back from learning and evolving which is something I don’t believe you believe as you have done both those things in your sexual and relationship past.
Is value = desire/ready/emotionally evolved?
Perhaps overzealous in my remarks, the core remains.
A person who can breathe for a few minutes without aid of a respirator will value each and every breathe.. but only because they took for granted the value of each breathe they had with fully functional lungs before smoking their lungs into oblivion. That’s value under duress.
When i’m accosted by 35+ year old women who badger me about why im not going to remarry, much less choose one of the finer more mature lass’s.. they’re all aghast when i tell them i want someone 10 years my jr. They cannot understand that they only consider ‘locking down’ now as a failsafe and last resort, rather something than they could have easily accomplished with greater results during their biological primacy. I didn’t write the rules. Biology always wins.
Just as it’s now accepted that female hypergamy to want the best ReadyMadeMan is a natural evolutionary trait.. so is the man’s need for the Young&FertileFemale.
Maybe ‘never’ was too harsh. But you can’t tell me any woman who says ‘your 20′s are for you to enjoy’ seriously treated commitment with anything other than sheer contempt whilst millions of beta’s who actively sought commitment and lockdown where shoved under the carpet and swept away? ewww, icky beta, go away, you go squish now.
I have respect for cads/sluts who are honest with themselves and declare without reservation that the institution of marriage/settling is not for them. What i can’t abide by is men or women who gallivant around giving commitment the finger, then demand it when the clock starts ticking. Doubly so for women. Double standard it may be, but girls by and large can get sex at the drop of a hat early in life. Lastly, because it’s a chorus of non stop women who are shrieking from the heavens that MEN are the commitment-phoebes when it’s plain as day in the 80/20 world that the majority of men seek it, the majority of women dispense with it.
Not ranting at you personally.. just giving my mountaintop sermon to the masses is all.
Let me add by saying.. i value commitment. Always have. My beta past has solidified my future.
Now.. i’ve put a vast amount of work into myself between me 18 vs. me 36. I’m healthy, i’m worked my butt off to get in shape, i’ve plunked some coin into fixing my smile, i’ve studied game, changed my attitude, my posture, my grammer, my way of thinking and interacting. The world is mine for the taking now how i see fit.
*IF* i chose to go on a pump and dump spree and nail away girl after girl at the height of my power now… once i become infirm and senile and all i got is spotted saggy skin, jowels and some funny spots on my dick.. would anyone suggest that i actually value commitment?
To steal a line from Batman:
“It’s not who I am underneath, but what I do that defines me”
Right now, at the top of my game, when i could do anything.. learn the dark arts, go pump n dump, go pound strippers (which i’ve yet to do even tho i said i would), i’m still sitting on almost 2 yrs since my marriage ended looking for a “decent” woman rather than devaluing the meaning of commitment by sleeping around with every Angel, Candy and Mercedez. But they gotta qualify to me first. That’s the key. They gotta earn commitment from me.
That’s what many a woman has forgotten to do. Make men qualify before sex.
In another forum I have been meaning to ask you about your divorce. – if of course you feel ok speaking about it. Divorce is something I cannot even let enter my brain. I cannot imagine the pain, scars etc left behind. I am an extremely honest person (as 3mm points out and u prolly gathered from my blog) and if I say I LOVE YOU, thu sickness and health etc. I have to mean it. those words cant physically pass thu my lips wo me fully meaning it. That said, I only have half a say right… so some things are uncontrollable eh. Also, if I am truly unhappy I don’t condone staying in an unhealthy marriage and would not do so myself.
I have some.. issue and I am certain you did not mean it in this way bc I have read your blog and know you are smart, perceptive and from what I can tell a good human being.
“i’ve put a vast amount of work into myself between me 18 vs. me 36. I’m healthy, i’m worked my butt off to get in shape, i’ve plunked some coin into fixing my smile, i’ve studied game, changed my attitude, my posture, my grammar, my way of thinking and interacting. The world is mine for the taking now how i see fit.”
A lot if not all these things are… superficial and can be lost or taken away at the drop of a hat, to no fault of your own. Shouldn’t love, real love, be based on more? Something visceral that cant be explained in words. I agree, fitness and attractiveness plays a role, naturally, biologically, but ive always felt those who date or be w people solely based on those reasons, even the fertility clause, will bore of their partner eventually. I give just hotness alone 4 mos – 5 years.
The work you put into yourself, it does get u laid in the short term, may get you a 22 year old wife, but, will you be happy with her in 15 years if it turns out she is infertile, incapable of deep conversation etc? (I know a bunch of 27-33 year old struggling w fertility, youth helps but biology rules). So, is this bulk, this grammar this work to APPEAR appealing, is it mainly for the pump and dumps? or to find another wife, one you will want to be w forever bc you love her INSIDE and OUT?
I have no issues talking about my nuked marriage. You can always ask.
“if I say I LOVE YOU, thu sickness and health etc. I have to mean it. those words cant physically pass thu my lips wo me fully meaning it.”
Here’s the thing luv.. every girl means it. *at the time* you think my exwife stood up there in front of her parents, family and witnesses thinking ‘fuck ya, i blow this up in a year whoot’? The only reason we got married in a church was to *strengthen* the bond under God. Which is what i find amusing that i, the atheist.. moved heaven and earth to save it while she dug her head into the sand. Of course everything i did was more beta, more supplication.. EVERYTHING the female marriage councellor asked for, helping me dig my own grave faster. Had i discovered the sphere first, i’d have used Athols MAP to whip her into shape and save $400 in the process.
A woman can NEVER envision leaving her man of the moment.. yet it happens EVERY. SINGLE. DAY.. because that moment is fleeting. The sphere is a testament to that. Women are emotional creatures, living in feelings and moments, changing like the winds or the current of the sea without warning. All too often with a hamster at the helm guiding the ship towards the break-rock.
“you are smart, perceptive and from what I can tell a good human being.”
Debatable
i could just be an angry troll who data-mines Gandhi quotes?
“Shouldn’t love, real love, be based on more?”
That’s what i love about you Audi (i’ve nicked you after a quality car) you have a young innocent naivete view of the world. And again we go back into the idealist world of what could and should. In the idealistic world you live in, a guy like me, hell all those poor lambasted NiceGuys of OKCupid should have found success by being Honorable, chivalrous, white knights of the world. In your idealistic world.. i wouldn’t have been passed over for 12 years as being some awkward and socially unattractive nice guy.
But for some strange reason, without all those ‘superficial’ reasons, i never quite made the cut?
And then go and read Rollo’s “Hypergamy doesn’t car” article.
http://rationalmale.wordpress.com/2012/05/16/hypergamy-doesnt-care/
We are a shallow species, following ancient programming for the best outcome for our race. We in the sphere are slowly coming to accept women’s hypergamy as innate, natural and something we either adapt to or die alone. We can’t vilify it, it serves an evolutionary function. So to does men’s hypergamy. To make better babies. The superficial you describe is pure hypergamy. And for the last 40 years, it ran like a Blitzkrieg for women while being shut down for men. Men ditching old wives for young hot women.. dogs and animals. Women ignoring a majority of beta men chasing after top alphas.. you go girl.
Attraction isn’t Love and vice versa. Loving someone isn’t the same as being attracted to or wanting to fuck. The attraction must come first, and if properly guided, through sex, mutual intersts and goals, and bonding will love, the INSIDE and OUT love grow. This is why Dalrock’s post about The Wife of your Youth is so important. A woman who bonds and sticks with you early on and creates many lasting memories with you will almost ALWAYS be viewed as that young woman by the man, even when she is old and wrinkled. Their many shared experiences will carry over into his memories. The more wonderful the memories, the more bonding, the likelihood no woman will look more appealing to go leave for another wife.
And you can’t get those memories built up in your late thirties when the youthful glow of a young woman is gone. That’s why in old patriarchy days, the women made sure the girls got married off early.
With the advent of the sphere, you’re seeing the pendulum swing hard in the other direction. As there were millions of male casualties during the social engineering swing to the left by feminists for women to leave their natural roles and browbeat men into hideously contorted gender roles… the return swing will see millions of casualties too for women lied to by feminism and a resurgence of hypermasculinity. It’s a sad outcome but a necessary one to restore balance.
“may get you a 22 year old wife, but, will you be happy with her in 15 years if it turns out she is infertile, incapable of deep conversation etc?”
It would not get that far. If she was incapable of deep convos i’d chuck her on date 3. At my age, i’ll take infertile. I don’t want kids. In fact, single moms are actually great for me, works done, i just get the fun lol. Remember my duality as a writer is the person i am who sees a world not worth saving.. yet preaching a way to save it if the next generation takes heed! While hooking up with a 30-35 year old is no real issue for me, i write for up and coming men (and women) to see past the social constructs of feminism, embrace our biological norms instead of fighting them, give feminism the finger and return to a manner of mating and relationships that cultivate building a society that works, not a nihilists wet dream!
Always remember, I wanted what you want, and i paid a terrible price for believing it.. believing women were capable of it. 12 years Audi. You read it, you know. 12 years looking for someone to love me inside and out despite my biological shortcomings and superficial lacking.
I wish it weren’t so, but idealism isn’t enough to stop what’s started. I guess women can only hope men as a whole won’t be as cruel as women were when feminism hit it’s peak of tyranny.
Cripes.. this almost became another post! And it’s time for bed. Cherio!
@M3
Excellent Comment. You verbalized something that has been bumping around in my head for years now. All my life actually since around 15 or maybe younger.
“Commitment only matters at the height of your power.”
“Commitment… after hitting the wall is really just commitment under duress.”
This is the most cogent way of expressing it I have ever come across. And succinctly. That particular organization of words, i.e., succinct concept formation, never came to me. Being able to name a thing in a compact way is extraordinarily helpful.
Thank you.
Thanks to the sphere I know better than to ever date a girl my age or older.
College age up to 25 is the target.
M3,
That reminds me of a phrase I found in RooshV forum. Goes something like this:
“A woman’s loyalty is tested when a man has nothing. A man’s loyalty is tested when a man has everything”.
It might be nice to prove your loyalty that way, but then you’re stuck in a situation where you can be screwed over in return for your loyalty… So yes, a relationship where man and woman have matched power is the one where one has to worry the least…
Yea, you should make a post out of that. I learned about you, about what you think I believe based on my language.
I am, at my core, an evolutionary psychologist. A believer in all it’s principles. That we live in a modern world but house a caveman brain… All our instincts are driven by sex, food and surviving long enough to have children to rear them to an age they can care for themselves.
All this includes what you said about attractiveness, dominance etc.
We are of course attractive to those who will breed w us kids most likely to thrive and survive. I’m just sayin being pretty isn’t enough to survive or thrive.
I want love from the inside out bc that’s how I believe will provide the best most “viable” offspring.
I will have to write a post myself about evolution, biology and psychology… And of course sex and relationships. (btw liv Audi, since I did have a total James bond hit a tree and was airborne in one, killed the car, I left totally unscathed)
Will/would u remarry? And if fertility is not an issue why is a woman’s value of being young w fertile prospects any issue w you?
K I think we have dominated the comment section enough!
Last thought. No my experience w celibacy or extreme lack of sex for most of my 20′s no way compares to yours, women CAN, incould have, If I faked who I was and prolly gotten laid. I’ve never turned down innocent betas.. I then had my sexual exploration which is over… And I may face a looong ass celibate period. Heck, these recent posts coupled w my 30th bday impending have me completely down-trodden. Basically I feel I got no chance so I could potentially be celibate for 5, 10, 20 years, heck forever (which is a waste given my absolute adoration of sex).
I guess, you guys win. I’m a lost cause and doomed to spinsterhood.
(LAST thing: i am NOT a feminist, feminists hate me, you guys call me that, where do I fit in then? My views on life, goals and relationships comes from the family values passed onto me – which were basically watching absitcom worthy marraige… So I am in no mans land, old, unemployed, broke…and witnessed and grew up in a loving home. I’m damned)
Sorry Jay, I’m assuming this comment was directed at me?
I’ll answer this comment here when I get back home (on cellphone).. but if you’d like, contact me through my blog as well.
Short answer, lower your expectations if lofty, and ramp up femininity. Smiling, flirting, being a sensual woman who can make a guy genuinely feel like a man in a ladies presence. By lower expectations I don’t mean standards, I mean don’t disqualify men for small faults.
More later.
Oh friend (may I call you that? Or is that too intimate, or not intimate enough?), how can I not like this post when you shower me with compliments. While, my own words may not be cheerful or optimistic, yes, they are honest. I feel that being honest w yourself is important; it allows room for change and growth.
Ms. Audacious would like to pose this question: does 3rd MM men have any specific advice for women like myself, fearfully on the edge of 30 (but still holding their own thanks to sunscreen and the gym – and appear perhaps 26), and must chose to sacrifice (or take a huge risk and hope at 35 I still hold enough value to be swipes by a quality man) either some of the traits she is attracted to “settle” for a mate, or things she had hoped to accomplish and begin an intense man-hunt before her values drops even more?
How can she increase her value, possibly making up for what she can’t control now; age and jadednness? I highly regard your opinion, as well as the other 150k men and women that visit your wonderful site.
taab – as a man in his late forties perhaps my perspective can help.
Women have two major ‘value’ cards to play, their physical attractiveness and their femininity. The physical attractiveness is pretty much set at conception and, as has been repeatedly pointed out, declines fairly rapidly. Continue to keep yourself in shape but accept it’s a losing game. But femininity – that can be learnt and worked on. In the past society taught women how to be feminine so that they still had value (to men) when their looks had faded. Believe me it works – just last week, myself and a number of other similarly aged male colleagues were debating why we found a rather plain mid fifties female co-worker so attractive. We finally figured it out – she’s one of the most feminine women any of us knows. Note, not sexy; feminine. Femininity is like cat-nip to men. Not least because it is so rare these days.
I suspect your next question may be ‘What is femininity, what do I actually need to do?’ Femininity is hard to define but most men know it when they see it. My advice would be to work to obtain a deep understanding of how Feminism dictates that you conduct yourself. And then do precisely the opposite. Try to understand that what I am prescribing here, (be sweet, caring, supportive, cheerful etc) are not weaknesses. When it comes to interacting with men, femininity is your strength.
No one considers the feminine woman in our office to be weak – she is accomplished, respected and confident in her role. And male attention is hers for the taking – no mean feat given her age and lack of beauty. And all down to her femininity.
AAB –
You’re sound like you’re already doing all you can on your end of things. Men are first attracted to the outside. Do everything you can to hold off father time. (He’s a malicious bastard, and a misogynist, too. He also hates men, just in a different way.)
However, you had it right in your second-to-last paragraph: if you want a life-partner, finding him needs to be your priority. Of course, you can’t abandon your career entirely, but if you are looking down the barrel of 30, your SMV is actually just past it’s peak. Right now you’re in your late 20′s competing with girls in their early 20′s. The thing is, when you’re in your late 30′s (ten years is an AMAZINGLY short period of time), you’ll STILL be competing with girls in their early 20′s.
Good luck.
Something you have to realise Jay, is that all the men here have swallowed the red pill. This means that thanks to the Manosphere, we see things very differently in terms of male/female interactions. But at the same time, we also spend FAR MORE TIME thinking and writing about these things than any lay person would in the outside world. Hence, 99% of men in the outside world won’t be thinking in the terms we describe in these posts.
So what does that mean for you? Put yourself out there. You know what it takes to attract men. You now understand what turns them off and what will make them stick around. With your manosphere-inspired empowerment and your natural feminity and attractiveness, I’d think that you shouldn’t have a problem finding a good, stable guy to settle down with. But realise (as you do now) that you’re not going to get the alpha player to settle down when he’s just not interested in doing so.
Let me second what Cadders has to say about femininity–that’ll be your selling point if you really dedicate yourself to becoming more feminine.
The problem you have, that other guys here have touched on, is that you talk about “real love” being based on something more. Thats all well and good, but how can a man spot real love? For the older woman desperate for a man, her hormones are screaming at her to settle down with a nice beta guy. It is VERY HARD for a man to distinguish between a decent older woman who loves him truly, and an older woman with screaming hormones that wants to settle down.
So, how does a man identify a woman who really cares about him, vs. a woman who just wants to settle down? The answer is, what is she willing to sacrifice to get him to commit. A young woman who decides to marry is sacrificing her prime “fun” years. What is any middle age woman sacrificing? Are you sacrificing anything at all when you suggest that a man should choose based on “real love” or anything of that sort? Of course not–you are suggesting men should choose based on the qualities that would benefit you. That isn’t sacrifice, thats being selfish.
Thats why you would be best served by working on your femininity– its HARD to be truly feminine these days. Dedicating your time and effort to being truly feminine tells all the men around you that you understand what men like, and you’re willing to sacrifice the time and effort required to become what they want.
@Cadders
Say what? There is nothing about a woman in her 50s that is even remotely attractive. That’s Grandma age. It always generates a subtle “vomit in my mouth” feeling when I see a woman 45+ wearing sexy younger womans clothing, dying her hair and using lipstick. They should be like those little Italian widows and wear all black, wear a headscarf, stay home, be quiet and do the cooking and cleaning. Oh yeah, an resign themselves to never having sex again. Their sexual lives are over. Accept it already.
I much like, Cadders, am a man in his forties. 43 to be exact. I date women in there teens to 23 usually and I never date women with kids. A few older women do sneak in under to wire because I thought they were younger than they actually were. Or, they had a body that was so amazing that I had no choice. But, even the amazingly hot, gym crafted and genetically blessed ones have a cut off of around 33. After than the skin changes. Especially the skin on their ass. It loses it’s firmness and slides around. Ugh. That by the way is why I never date women that have had children for very long.
Can an older woman generate feelings of good will? Yes.
Love? Yes the sentimental type. The respect based kind.
Pingback: Manosphere: Female Age and Sexual Market Value (Part 2) « PUA Central
I actually did Step 1 by accident. I met my wife when she was a 19-year-old hottie. She’s in her 40′s now – but when I look at her, I still see her when she was much younger.
When I was a kid, I was all about having fun in your 20′s and not marrying until you were in your 30′s. But having actually hooked up with a life partner in my 20′s and having bonded so deeply so young, well, it’s carried us through the rough parts, and I find that now that gravity is starting to set it for both of us, I’m less distressed that she’s not a 19-year-old hottie any more.
I don’t feel like she spent all her hotness on other men and then “settled” for me, y’know?
Jabee. Funny how you have the most negative and like, not helpful comment. You just talk about your problems distinguishing a good woman from a user. That is a very important radar to hone in on. But that has nothing to do with me.
Cadders states: “You’re sound like you’re already doing all you can on your end of things”
3 MM says “With your manosphere-inspired empowerment and your natural feminity and attractiveness”
Why you think I wouldn’t give up things for a man, I don’t know. Have I already, maybe, but not for a specific man, but men in general, AND if the few men I DID want more with, in my early 20′s and lately, I gave up so much for. I would have given up… so many of the things ive done that helped make me see I am stronger than I thought. But I would have given that up. Given up living where I prefer for what they wanted, send my kids to schools based on what was important to them. However, it cannot be all one-sided. Women often give up way more than men but for a payback. Love, affection, a good father to the children you have together. Being there through thick and thin. We cannot be all giving. we can be submissive, but, what is there to dominate if we give up everything?
the difference between a 20 year old 7 and hot 30 year old 8. the amount of time and effort i’ll put into her. i am NOT working to close a 30 year old 8. and if she’s got more the one kid- i’m punching out.
any man answering this question HAS to be honest witj himself. what would you go after- an OK looking 22 year old, or a solid 8 32 year old. ask a woman her age, a women in her 30′s typically groans about her age. a girl in her 20 is QUICK to tell you, “I’M 23!!!!!”
lol.
Any single man would just have both. Best of both worlds. Why limit yourself.
Advice for women at 30 and above who are looking to change their attitudes about men. This dating exercise has proven to be very successful.
http://theprivateman.wordpress.com/2011/10/27/a-dating-exercise-for-women/
A few thoughts/questions…
Why is hypergamy considered solely a female issue? Hypergamy (as I understand it) is the pursuit of the best one can do, in a mate or otherwise. Generally, if women go for richer & hotter and men go for younger & hotter what is the difference? All details aside, a woman replacing a man with another is the same as a man replacing a woman for another.
I understand the idea of a woman or a man with a lot of partners (lets say 10+) being more likely to cheat/stray in a relationship than a similar couple with a smaller count. But I’m curious as to why…basically since the pandoras box of sex is opened, why wouldn’t the less experienced pair want to stray and sow oats, while the more experienced pair already knows what is out there so they are content jot to stray.
If a woman’s prime is 18-24 then her only chance is to marry young if she desires marriage. What about change of mind or wanting life experience (not more/random sex partners, but travel, adventure, etc) before committing to children/husband? Or what if your ‘ideal virgin bride’ marries at 20 (basically only contributing looks, since she has no real discernible experience yet) then divorces at 35 with no kids. Then what? She has no chance ever again at love, being desired, or having a family? And the husband, let’s say he was 35 when they married (now 50) is somehow in an ideal spot to marry another 20 year old and have kids with her? All of this seems very one sided to one philosophy. I’m not denying the manospheres deep allegiance to these memes, I’m not denying that there isn’t truth to some of it in fact, but I don’t hear solutions other than game and give up on the idea of love and rope in who you can when you can.
Social Pathologist took a crack at it here. Read the comments section too:
http://socialpathology.blogspot.ca/2012/11/femogamy-new-term-for-manosphere.html
“why wouldn’t the less experienced pair want to stray and sow oats”
- not if they chose wisely and are equivalent sex rank. they also bond (you never forget your first), and your partnership begins a journey together as an exploration and discovery of one another that requires years, thing a one night stand or hookup could never figure out (or bother with)
“while the more experienced pair already knows what is out there so they are content jot to stray.”
- high partner counts tend to choose each other because low partner count people generally reject them, tho men moreso than women because many women want pre-selected men (which means they’ve been around the block) and are more willing to ‘overlook’ the number via don’t ask-don’t tell.
low count men with high count women are a disaster. feelings of inadequacy, not being able to view yourself as special.. just a number in a long list of dicks, knowing you will be mentally compared to every prior lover and held against the highest memory (5 minutes of alpha) and the realization that this woman who treats sex as a novelty may indeed be a greater flight risk for divorce/cheating/getting preggo by another man and cuckold him. Evolution gives us spidey sense for a reason.
“What about change of mind or wanting life experience”
-these can’t be done with a long time boyfriend or engagement partner? if marriage and children are supposed to be a woman’s top priority in life, she needs to treat it as such. if women want to travel, have fun, ride the carousel or just jump from boyfriend to boyfriend while building a career.. then that is the priority in their life, not marriage/kids.
If going to a reputable school was your priority in life to get an education, you spend your time getting a job and socking away tuition. Sure you can let loose every now and then, but you want to be able to afford Harvard right? You can live your life with the priority of making it into that school. You can’t spend your years blowing all your money on booze and parties every friday night (and not studying to boot) and then wake upone day and say ‘ok time to apply to harvard’ and expect to get in with shit marks and $0 in you bank account.
“then divorces at 35 with no kids. Then what? She has no chance ever again at love, being desired, or having a family?”
-i’d have to ask why she divorced? her choice or his? if it was eat pray love.. it’s on her. if she had a legit reason (unhaaaapy doesn’t count) then it mitigates. If she spent enough time with the man to choose to marry him, she needs to own up to that fact that it was her choice to marry. No gun to her head. If she’s not willing to fulfill the contract, it means she chose poorly. and of course she always has a chance at love, desire again, she just needs to lower her standards, expectations and realize she’s competing with younger women. As for children.. well, fertility doesn’t last forever. If kids were a priority, she’d have had them when younger.
“All of this seems very one sided to one philosophy.
-Welcome to real life. No amount of moaning about the realities of our biology will change it. Men need to accept the reality of female attraction and take responsibility for themselves by learning game/attraction/working out/etc… in order to succeed with women and stop moaning about how women choose exciting personalities over nice personalities. Women need to accept their reality too.
All humans start to degrade after 25……???
Rubbish!
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now I have a question, and an incredible fear. I am very in love with my boyfriend, we’ve been together 2 years. We have the same goals…same everything. We’re perfect together. but he’s only 8 months older than me. Does that mean we’re doomed?
Not at all. He loves you, you’re good together and you have shared history. He has no reason to look further afield. Just don’t let yourself go to rack and ruin
But why WOULDN’T he? If men really only care about youth, why would he want to stay with me when I’m older, even if we had history?
http://3rdmilleniummen.wordpress.com/2012/09/02/manosphere-marriage-and-age/
6. Solomon recounts a story where a 72 year old Irishman from Philly tells him: A good woman ages beautifully. When I look at my wife, I see the most gorgeous woman in the universe. Her wrinkled hands got that way by keeping up with my two boys and working hard for them while I was on the road. The lines under her eyes are from years of shedding tears for me when I was at war, and those wrinkles on her brow are from decades of worry for me and my two sons. It was her legs they held on to when they were learning to walk, her lap was where they learned to read, and her breasts were their first nourishment. The first kiss those boys ever received was from her lips, and God willing, my last kiss will be from her lips. You two don’t know what you’re missing – or maybe you do. But all I know is that she’s as beautiful, desirable, and lovely today as the day I met her, and I wouldn’t trade one second with her for a lifetime of rowdiness with one of those harlots you guys have waiting for you back home.
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All humans start to degrade after 25? Why not after 26? Or 27? 30 would be fine too. Man, I feel old now.
@d
You are in a tough spot. The question is whether it is best to deal with the bitter cold of reality or delude yourself by believing in something gentler and easier on the heart.
What no one seems capable of saying, even here, is that if he truly loves you, that deep down wonderful type of love, then you should marry him and if when you age his desire for you falls *physically*, then you should accept the fact that he may want to add a younger second wife to your marriage.
It boggles the mind that somehow our western cultural norms developed in such a way as to completely remove this most natural of conditions between man and woman.
A man can love a woman deeply. She can lose her sexual desirability while maintaining his love. In times past, a man would not abandon his aging wife as they do now, that is too cruel; and he of course loves her. Better to just marry a new one, younger and hotter, and continue loving his old wife. What could be more natural than that?
“Solomon recounts a story where a 72 year old Irishman from Philly tells him: A good woman ages beautifully.”
This is true.
“When I look at my wife, I see the most gorgeous woman in the universe.”
This isn’t. It is true that a man can see a kind of beauty in his aged wife. A very real wonderful beauty. Just not a sexual one. The 72 year old Irish man was making excuses and trying desperately to believe his own rubbish. He didn’t state it explicitly, but he is trying to claim that his wife is just as desirable as she ever was. Nonsense. Does he love her? Yes. Deeply? Yes. Desire her? Depends on his options.
Good sir, you make a fine, very good point. Schopenhauer echoes this view, in his essay on women (http://www.theabsolute.net/misogyny/onwomen.html) (ignore the so called “mysoginy” in the link; it is quite the opposite of “mysoginy”).
Thanks, very interesting!! My favourite part:
With girls, Nature has had in view what is called in a dramatic sense a “striking effect,” for she endows them for a few years with a richness of beauty and a, fulness of charm at the expense of the rest of their lives; so that they may during these years ensnare the fantasy of a man to such a degree as to make him rush into taking the honourable care of them, in some kind of form, for a lifetime—a step which would not seem sufficiently justified if he only considered the matter. Accordingly, Nature has furnished woman, as she has the rest of her creatures, with the weapons and implements necessary for the protection of her existence and for just the length of time that they will be of service to her; so that Nature has proceeded here with her usual economy. Just as the female ant after coition loses her wings, which then become superfluous, nay, dangerous for breeding purposes, so for the most part does a woman lose her beauty after giving birth to one or two children; and probably for the same reasons.
“All humans start to degrade after 25″
Source?