It seems a trend in the Sphere to recommend that you have kids when you hit your 30s. It’s important to be aware that there are issues of having kids too late. Quality of sperm decreases for one, and here’s another that I’d never thought of until I read it here. You want to be able to spend good, healthy years with your kids if you want them, which I certainly do!
Men
Dr Meg Jay recounts the sobering story of ‘Billy’. (Buy this book, it’s brilliant. This is from pages 135-137).
Dr Jay: I worked with Billy in his mid-thirties, as he married, had a son, and turned more seriously toward work. It was stressful, trying to do everything at once. He often felt his job and his family needed more attention than he could give. One day at the office, he had such chest and head pains he called his wife to drive him to the hospital. The next day, he underwent an MRI, which fortunately turned up nothing serious, except his own personal reckoning…
Billy: So I went for my MRI and it was a really fucking scary thing… and the funny – no, sad – thing was my life didn’t flash before my eyes. Not at all. I’m thirty-eight years old and there were like, two things I had in my mind – the way my little son’s hand feels when I hold it and how I didn’t want to leave my wife behind to do it all on her own. What seemed plain to me was that I wasn’t scared of losing my past. I was scared of losing my future. I felt like almost nothing in my life mattered up until just a few years ago. I realised that all the good stuff is still to come. I was so sick and panicked that I might never see my son ride a bike, play soccer, graduate from school, get married, have his own kids. And my career was just getting good.
Nothing is wrong, thank God But this has made me face some things… What I can’t figure out, and what I feel like I am grieving a little, is why I spent so many years on nothing. So many years dong things and hanging out with people that don’t even rate a memory. For what? I had a good time in my twenties, but did I need to do all that for eight years? Lying there in the MRI, it was like I traded five years of partying or hanging out in coffee shops for five more years I could have had with my son if I’d grown up sooner. Why didn’t someone drop the manners and tell me I was wasting my life?
Women
I was really impressed by the brutal and brave honesty of The Audacious Amateur Blogger looking at ageing:
That’s the thing. I’m not as concerned w not lookin so good. I mean I take well enough care enough physically and have good skin. Skin, and grey hair age people, nowadays theirs hair due and Botox… It’s that I wanted to DO so much. I had so many PLANS.
I still wanted to travel more, I’ve always wanted to live abroad and learn another language, figure out what i reaaally want professionally and build a career. Meet “the one”, travel and do exiting things like hike the Pacific northwest trail w him for 4 months, find a place to settle down, build a home and a family, host dinner parties and join local community efforts to prevent obesity and increase physical activity in youth and adults… I guess I’m one of those typical “21st century” women who want it all… And at 25 it seemed.. Within reach. Now… I know I have to make sacrifices.Not bc I think 30 or even 40 or 50 is old. I know 50 year old women who raised families, built crazy successful careers, sustained a loving marriage, and look freaking hot and are still physically fit to ski runs that make my quads sore just thinking about them.
I just can’t stop my bio clock. I can’t make my eggs stay young. And every year I get more emotional baggage. While getting older does mean knowing more about life and the world etc. maybe… I liked being a little naive. Because bad things happen! To good people. As you age you gain wisdom but you also gain… Awareness that shit happens, it happens to you and you become jaded (you can’t tell me your failed relationship hasn’t affected the way you approach love and relationships now). You find jobs you love and get axed or don’t climb the ropes bc of corporate bullshit, you see that working hard and intelligence don’t mean as much as ass kissing. You see parents get sick. Your father lose his mind to Alzheimer’s at 63! You cry knowing the man you grew up with, your hero, your children will never meet. That he might not even know who you are or what is going on when walking you down the aisle… Ugh. Just so much SHIT. In 7 years how much shit you realize in wrong with the world. I mean i stood on a rooftop less than two miles from ground zero and watches the twin towers collapse.
THOSE things age you as much or more than a few wrinkles.
Geez, I depress myself reading that. How I know for sure now that I must chose; what do I want out of life, go for it and never look back in regret about the choice. If – and I most likely will as at this very moment hormones are shooting through me my body like a cold chill, begging for the warmth of an infant at my breast – I mean I considered moving to the foothills and like organic farming for a dude…. Yah, that’s totally how most people from the Bronx end up – I chose family, I need to realize with undue certainty there is no having it all. I can’t live in Colombia, have a successful career and raise babies with a great guy simultaneously. I may have to settle for a career I don’t love all tbat much but allows me the freedoms to pick my kids up after school, provides health insurance, that is… Practical. I won’t settle for a man I do not love. I must love him in some capacity. Perhaps it won’t be the quivering love at first sight sensation of when I first met Alex, or the lust at first sight of Matthew (have not even gotten to talkin about him yet!), but I will live him bc he is caring or makes a good father and I truly only have about 3 “essentials”. You have to be a “good person”, in your soul, your heart. You would be the guy who would just walk by a man beating a women on the street, you would DO something about it (call the cops, not get yourself hurt or anything by gettin into a fight). The kind of man who has great friends that rely and trust him. He must be driven. Not necessarilly rich, but motivated to succeed. Intelligent, but always wanting to learn more, hard-working but always looking for the next challenge. And, be honest. With me, others and himself.
Reading about Billy, I see so many of my older friends in his eyes. I also think to how many of my friends with older parents now only have one, the other lost to… Cancer, heart attack, coronary, etc. they were young-ish. Early to mid 50′s, but if you have a child at 43, you leave a 7 year old without a mother or father, or both. You obviously cannot predict death, anyone can get hit by a car at anytime, but risk of chronic illness does increase with age (as quality of sperm decreases).
Great follow up post. Thank you for including my dark yet enlightening words (I didn’t even realize I had those thoughts till they spilled from my fingertips).
Living in the present is extemely important. However, the past AND the future are not far either.
Lookin forward to the next “made me think” post!
Wow. Did you read her (Audacious Blogger’s) reply to M3 about what she wants in a guy? Hard to know whether to laugh or feel sorry for her. Evan though she realizes she is competing against much younger women, she is still so deluded on her value. Of course if in time she becomes realistic in her expectations, her value will already have dropped again and again and again each time she adjusts. Of course red pill men know by that time, they women are looking to settle. Who wants to be the last option?
Man she rode the cock carousel hard for a long time, too.
I’m, first off, I’d like to know your criteria or definition of hard carousel riding. I am the first to admit ive used the expression In posts but. As an expression, its alliteration, makes for better writing. I also say I waited a long time to initiate sex and I’m not exactly sure what the correlation bt # of sexual partners and age of sexual initiation is but I know earlynage of initiation is associated w increased STI’s, having multiple partners, pregnancy, faithfulness, and is associated with psychosocial issues as well. See; http://picturebandit.wordpress.com/stories-geschichten/story-abc-geschichten-abc/angst/
Regarding my criteria… It was really vague. So I’m not sure what your talkin about. Being athletic doesn’t mean being a professional athlete, just someone who jogs or plays tennis or basketball whatever once or twice a week. Someone who doesn’t do anythjng but sit all day. I say I want someone intelligent, not brilliant, and honestly those are the only men I meet just as a factor of my social circle, my jobs, the activities I participate in. I go skiing, meet people, that population is bt default usually, in my experience come from well to do educated families and are athletic and motivated. You wouldn’t be doing the activity if you weren’t interested in pushing yourself – which was my other criteria, someone who is driven. I never mention money, don’t say they gotta be CEO, just that they have goals. Are interested in being fulfilled and a contributing member of society. And lastly, a good person. I think that’s self explanatory. Does anyone wanna end up w a cold hearted untrustworthy bad person? I’d rather not be w anyone than spend my life worrying how he is going to fuck me over again.
So tell me, if those generalized standards are too reaching for me, where should i go to meet these lazy, dumb, unmotivated sociopaths so I do have a chance at finding a man?
I hope to be married in 2/3 years but I can kny control that so much.
On age and marriage, many wise people and my family and marraige upper level seminar professor say that men should not marry before 30. Women are better off waiting till around then too.
Even In the 70′s when avg age of marraige was much lower than today studies show “those who marry early in life. Have higher rates of marraige instability than those who marry later in life”
See: http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/350904?uid=2460338175&uid=2460337855&uid=2129&uid=2&uid=70&uid=4&uid=83&uid=63&sid=21101594017387
Age of marriage or ideal age is def s debatable subject wo enough longitidal studies to have much empirical data. However, correlations have been proven one article from 2008 says “”Older marriages (30s vs. 20s) were more cohesive in the sense they did things more often together as a couple. And couples who married at older ages were less likely to report thinking about divorce or that their marriage was in trouble.”
However it does talk about delaying marraige and fertility – which is what my post primarily addresses as a concern of marrying later in life
See: http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/health/2008-11-09-delayed-marriage_N.htm
(it’s called research and citation, not personal opinion and blanket statements)
Regarding age and health… My dad ran 8 miles a DAY till his knee gave out at 60, the. Switched to 2 hr walks in our insanely hilly neighborhood… Fitness is in your hands, age increases chance of disease but these days w all the unhealthy behavior more and more young people are suffering from old people problems. High blood pressure, cholesterol, I have friends who are 30 on Lipitor. Not to. Mention type 2 diabetes. Geez, eat well and get your ass moving and chasing kids is a non issue and always been a ridiculous statement to me. My aunt had kids LATE, she was lucky not to have any trouble conceiving, her kids are brilliant and in top schools and she at 60 has more energy than she knows what to do with. She’s the friggen energizer bunny, traveling, changed careers at 55 from a high ass paying head of a major hospital to teacher bc… She could and wanted more time for other shit… I know fathers who are 73 all they do is play tennis and golf, wait for their 50 year old wife to come home and fuck.
Last comment: went skiing last week, first real powder of the season and I was hurting. KT-22 kicked my ass. Then the next day we learned sadly a 71 year old man had died on that same run. Not from a heart attack or stroke, guy hit a tree. Could happen to a 20 year old same as anyone.
71 and he was doing runs that whipped me. I’ve met 80 year olds, same thing, one 80 year old I skied w he was giving me tips told me “you must be in great shape, you did that whole run wo a break, most people have to stop midway for a break or are breathless after and your fine” I was line errr I do a lot of cardio and squats. 80 years old blasting down and mountain impressed with MY fitness level. So cut the crap on that, join a sport and see what the body is capable of if YOU do your part (see a pic a Jacques LaLaine at like 90 and come back to me
I’d say this this good advice. I think people should wait until they are ready and I think it’s important to have a fulfilling life before marriage and kids, but at the same time, they should keep in mind that they don’t gave forever. If they become too old to bare children themselves, think about adoption and what they plan to do if something were to happen to them.
“think about adoption”
If you think the government has screwed up marriage you should see what they have done to adoption. We are very far from the Anne of Green Gables days of going to the orphanage and picking up a child.
I had a colleague, a very successful doctor who lived on a ranch, turned down as an adoptive parent because he was 50 (his wife was 30 something). Meanwhile a woman he worked with, a single lesbian in her 60s was allowed to adopt. They looked into adopting a foreign child only to be told the child would be taken from them if they brought him into the country. The last I heard he and his wife were thinking about divorcing so she could adopt.
My wife and I also tried the adoption route. We were willing to take an older disabled child. These poor kids were drugged out of all sensibility and we were told that if we took them off the drugs, even years after adopting, the government would take them away.
Although everyone I know who stuck out the process eventually was allowed to adopt, the best way to to become a parent, short of making a child yourself, is to be very rich. Rich and famous is even better.
Despite what the government says it isn’t all about the children.
“You want to be able to spend good, healthy years with your kids if you want them, which I certainly do!”
While I won’t argue with the desire as a man…worrying about your future health is a good way to make your present health take a nosedive. You can’t predict the future…you could get hit by a car and never walk again tomorrow. Be glad for the health you have today and let tomorrow take care of itself.
Women though…age beats you down much more than a man. Wasting time with men who aren’t right for you is much worse than a man who goes along with a woman for a long time.
seems like this is harder on women
but in my parents traditonal point of view ,guys should marry young cuz youll have more strength and energy to keep up with the wife and kids
telling men to marry “young” is a recipe for disaster, strength and energy is relative to the person you are talking about, not every man will have less strength and energy to deal with wife and kids as they get older. Your parents are from another generation, things are much different today.
http://www.1channel.ch/watch-2735936-Are-All-Men-Pedophiles
Having kids at 30 is completely unnatural and is still something relatively new in history.
There needs to be a 12 step program for choice addiction.
i don’t want kids. but i refuse to string younger girls along. i mkae it well known in the beginning that i don’t want kids. they usually stick around for a few months thinking i’ll change my mind.
once they realize they can’t they usually tap out. and that’s cool. TWABAW.
it’s a well know fact: as a man ages his dating options get wider. as a woman ages, it gets narrower.
Nonsense. Women can have kids when they want them, men can have kids when they can afford them. Disease can strike at any age. Eat healthy and hit the gym and you’ll be able to chase kids even when you aren’t thirty anymore. Oh, and is this a Christian blog? If so, then what about all those patriarchs who fathered children in their golden years?
“Women can have kids when they want them”
See: http://3rdmilleniummen.wordpress.com/2012/09/16/the-cold-hard-facts-on-female-fertility/
Actually, women can have kids up to a certain age, but until then, they have choice. It is women who choose men, remember? But I agree that people are waiting too much to have kids, for they want a perfect life first.
Actually it is women who choose beta’s to marry AFTER they’ve had their fun with whatever alphas allowed them that luxury. You also fail to consider things like menopause, the increase in fertility issues that affect a lot of women these days young and old, the increased chances of miscarriages and birth defects as women grow older along with a lot of people have very poor health overall. Google obesity and pregnancy problems and you will see that there’s quite an upswing in that as well and obesity is an epidemic in and of itself – it’s not as easy insert tab A into slot B, add glue and 40 weeks later a baby arrives.
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